Is it true that the interview with Marianne Pogurskaya confirms the version of the Russian authorities about the destruction of the maternity hospital in Mariupol?

In early April 2022, a almost seven-minute video interview with Marianne Pogurskaya (Veschera) appeared in Telegram channels and the media, which allegedly forces a new look at the shelling of the maternity hospital in Mariupol in March. We decided to figure out whether this interview really proves the justice of the official Russian position.

March 9, 2022 first Ukrainian authorities, and then Western reporters Published several photos and videos from the destroyed maternity hospital in Mariupol. The most famous was the photograph of Marianne Podgurskaya (in the marriage of Vysoshemir)-who ended up in that hospital of the local beauty blogger. Some Telegram channels, and after them a number of Russian media after analysis of these materials They saidthat the personnel were staged. “Verified” dismantled the arguments of the supporters of this version and came to the conclusion that it contradicts the available data (we are the results of the audit Published March 12).

On the evening of April 1, 2022, the Telegram channel "PMC Media" (almost 70,000 subscribers at the time of writing of the material) Published The video in which "the very girl who, after the shelling of the Mariupol maternity hospital, was in all photos in all the media, tells how the barracks for Ukrainian militants were made from the hospital." Then the video began to post in the larger channels, for example, "Urgently, now" (more than 200,000 subscribers), "Z? Summers of the militia of Novorossia (DPR, LPR, Ukraine, War)" (almost 300,000 subscribers) and "Signal" (562,000 subscribers). Three weeks ago the authors of the latter are actively They convinced their readers that the events associated with the hospital in Mariupol are “huge production”.

The next morning on the YouTube channel of the blogger Denis Selezneva (in 2016, in a conversation with Dmitry, Goblin Puchkov, he called himself the head of the sociological service of the DPR) appeared The original interview, which, as it turned out, lasts as long as 24 minutes. Further the relay was picked up by the media. So, in the plot of Channel One, published on April 2, It is said: “There was no air raid. The popular blogger Marianna Vysoshemier was debunked in Ukraine, one of the main fakes that actively used the Western media. This is the same pregnant woman whose photographs circled the whole world after supposedly the bombing of the Mariupol hospital. ” In a similar way, they talked about the interview "Ren-TV", "News", newspaper "Sight", URA.RU and other media. And in Komsomolskaya Pravda I went out The article under the heading “Fake about the bombing of the maternity hospital in Mariupol was exposed by the“ heroine ”of the filming.

The interview of Vysoshemier confirms the conclusions of our previous analysis: photos and videos published in March were not staged.

Vesmmiyrskaya confirms that she was really pregnant and was in the maternity ward of the Mariupol hospital No. 3 (he is sometimes called maternity hospital No. 3 or the third hospital). When the building was under fire on March 9, the Vesmmiere, along with other women in labor and staff, went down to the basement, from where they were soon evacuated. During the evacuation, she fell into the lenses of the Associated Press (AP) of Mstislav Chernov and Evgeny Menletka. At the same time, in an interview, Vysoshemier confirmed that they shot not only her-contrary to the initial statements of a number of Russian media and Telegram channels, on a stretcher, they carried another woman, also pregnant and, unlike the Veschera, seriously wounded. Her name has not yet been named, but It is knownthat the doctors could not save either her or the child.

Before shelling, the maternity ward worked and was not captured by the "Azov". More clearly Vescheryarskaya pronounces this in its Instagram storosis: “Do not confuse the first maternity hospital, which the perinatal center is located on the outskirts of Mariupol - at the end of February the military occupied it. That is, they asked all the women in childbirth so that they would go home, the rest were transferred to the third maternity hospital, in which I was from March 6 to March 9 inclusive. That is, he functioned, and in it there were staff, pregnant women and women in labor. ” From these words we can conclude that armed people captured the hospital No. 1. But the woman knows about the fate of this institution only from secondary hands: the women in labor, who were transferred from there to the maternity ward of the hospital No. 3, were told about him.

We will analyze the conclusions, which, based on the interview, made some Russian media and Telegram channels.

There was no air raid

In the state media and proceedings of Telegram channels, an interview with Vysoshtyr was presented as evidence that there was no air raid on the maternity ward. The girl, indeed, repeatedly says that neither she, nor other women in labor, nor their husbands heard the sounds of airplanes flying over the building. From this, she concludes that the hospital buildings did not destroy the air bombs.

In the very first days after the appearance of the photo and video from the maternity ward of the Mariupol hospital No. 3, three versions of the incident were discussed. According to one, the airline was applied by the Russian Air Force, according to another - It was the shelling of long -range Russian artillery. Finally, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation claimed that the two explosions organized the Ukrainian military - more precisely, the "Nazi battalion" Azov "." The words of the Vysoshtyr are interpreted as evidence of the Russian version. 

Meanwhile, military experts with whom we managed to talk “checked” and our colleagues from Meduza (we prepared this analysis together and publish at the same time), say that a flying bomber can not be heard from the Earth. “The aircraft are far from always heard if they are not dropping free fall bombs, but launch the air -earth missiles from a distance or planning bombs (but Russia has such bombs only in development, as far as I know),” says Pavel Lusin.

Another expert agrees with him, who asked not to name his name: “The plane can release a controlled bomb and being 20 km from the target (and not above it) - then the plane will not be visible and heard. Ordinary bombs are thrown from a height of 7–8 km, being almost directly above the target (the distance can be 1-2 km) on the radar scope and Glonass. ” According to him, the usual, not supersonic, the plane may not be heard behind the clouds, and much also depends on the weather: "With high pressure, it is heard on." In order for the aircraft to be heard accurately, it must fly below 5000 m. According to the expert, different types of aircraft and a large number of various controlled and uncontrollable ammunition are in service with the Russian Air Force, therefore it is difficult to say what happened in this particular case.

Vysoshchersky herself, in fact, does not reproduce the version of the Russian Ministry of Defense, which claimsAs if Ukrainian "punishers" themselves arranged explosions near the hospital. According to her, along with other people who took refuge in the basement, they decided that it was "a shell that flew from somewhere in another place." At the same time, other eyewitnesses of the shelling claim that they had heard the plane. AP reporters Mstislav Chernov and Evgeny Menletka claim that the sound of a flying bomber is heard in the first seconds of this video. In any case, if the Vischemerian did not hear the sounds of a flying aircraft, this cannot indicate that there was no air raid.

AP photographers appeared at the scene of the event immediately, shot Vysoshemier without permission and concealed a video where she denies the fact of the air raid

Vysoshemierskaya claims that near the maternity hospital she asked the journalists of AP Chernov and the youngster not to shoot her, they ignored this request and thereby “plunged” her into this story. When asked how quickly the journalists were at the hospital, the Vysoshemierskaya replies that right away. Finally, says the Vesmmiere, Chernov and the youngster did not publish an interview with her, in which she refutes the fact of the air raid (they recorded this interview on March 11, two days after shelling and after the birth of her child).

In the preparation of reports and news stories from people who got into the frame, consent to the publication of materials with their participation is not required. Moreover, from video, published by AP, it is obvious that the Vyshemeyrskaya did not ask the journalists to stop the shooting (1: 57–2: 17).

Chernov and the youngster say that they reached the hospital about 25 minutes after the explosions, they were ahead of the police, military and rescue services. At the same time, being at a different point of the city, Chernov was able to to shoot And the moment of the explosion itself: loud sounds are heard on his video, a shock wave is visible, and smoke rises above the buildings next to the place where the reporters were located. Therefore, they were not far, and it is not surprising that they were able to come quickly enough. Moreover, they could come even earlier if they had not drove into another building on the way to charge cameras (this is also visible on their video).

An interview with the Vysoshcherskaya, which Chernov and the youngster were recorded on March 11, was posted in open access on the website of the video archive AP, but without the question of what happened to the hospital and her answer. Later on the website AP this conversation was published The whole - and you can make sure that the Vysoshtyri remembered or deliberately distorted the content of her own answer. In fact, she did not deny the air raid, but literally said the following: “From whom it arrived, where, what and where, we do not know. That is, there are many rumors, but in fact we cannot say anything about this ”(04:22).

Is it possible to believe at all? She was not forced to say something definite?

You can’t answer these questions exactly.

Vesmmiere says that she was able to evacuate from Mariupol, while the interview was interviewed by journalists Denis Seleznev and Kristina Melnikova, constantly working from the self -proclaimed DPR and accompanying their troops. That is, almost certainly it is located either in the territory controlled by unrecognized republics, or in Russia. The first is even more likely, given that, according to Vysoshemier, before moving to her husband in 2020, she lived in Makeevka, which has been on the territory of the DPR for eight years.

Nevertheless, there is no reason to argue that the Vyshertier was forced to pronounce someone else's prepared text. In particular, she does not use many Russian propaganda cliches. So, the word “special operation” in 24 minutes of interview does not sound even once, while these events are called five times (once - a blogger asking questions). Never Vysoshchersky is also mentioned by the Azov Regiment, which, according to Russian propaganda, captured Mariupol's medical institutions. Thus, according to the Vyshemerian, the military was occupied by the military, the military occupied the military, and she gives this a completely rational explanation (and does not repeat the propaganda that they used people as a live shield): “They need energy, there is no electricity in the city, and the building of the first maternity hospital is equipped with solar panels.”

Separately, the appeal of the Vyshemiri to the President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky was invited with the call to “negotiate and look for compromises”, which was inserted into the record after the interview. We cannot say whether this appeal was her own initiative or made at someone’s request or under pressure.

Not true

What do our verdicts mean?

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